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10591 - R: AS/400 or another platform
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R: AS/400 or another platform
First of all you were on a 1794CPW machine, the IBM rep said you needed
4200CPW and another machine for Development. You were told to over double
the cpw for a 60GB 200 user shop. Was there some growth and an SAP version
upgrade in there that you are not telling us about? Even so this seems
high.
Did you go over the cost of managing all of the windows servers vs the
iSeries, The inevitable downtime that you will suffer with an Intel
platform, the price to upgrade the Intel platform every year versus the
iSeries once every three or four? The cost of downtime, system maintenance,
future growth? Were reliability numbers talked about? Was IBM brought into
the loop at all by your rep to get special pricing?
Sounds like your IBM rep may have wanted to sell you Intel rather than the
alternatives, it seems the deck was stacked.
J.J. Pudenz
Advantage International Systems
Midrange Sales Executive
jjpudenzZadvgroup.com
Ph: (800)579-9273, Fax: (480)635-8608
Website: www.advgroup.com
Note: This communication is confidential and its contents should not be
disclosed to persons other than those to whom its addressed.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Pugh [mailto:ppughZwebcoindustries.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 7:52 AM
To: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
Subject: Re: R: RE: AS/400 or another platform
To get back to a serious discussion on this issue:
About using W2K app server, if your going to support SAP on windows
anyway, why wouldn't you just switch completely?
In December we made the switch to Win2000/MSSQL.
Our DB was 60 GB w/ 150 - 200 users. We were 2 tier on an 8 way S30
running 40B. Our decision was based on economics. There was simply
no way to justify staying on the AS/400. IBM's proposal was to
replace the S30 with a 4-way 830 w/ 12 gig mem along with an 820 for
developement.
For the price of the memory alone we could buy several win2k app
servers.
The absolute killer of the deal was disk. To get enough disk arms for
sufficient performance we would need to get 64 drives Z 18 gig
putting us close to a terabyte for our 60 GB database. The extra disk
space would just be wasted unless we got into the integrated server
business.
We settled on a 4-way central instance, 4-way database server setup
as a failover cluster and two 4-way app servers. Our database is on a
500 GB SAN which is shared by the rest of our windows apps.
Like I said, the economics were overwhelming. For less money than
what staying with the AS/400 would cost us, we were able to upgrade
with enough horsepower for 4.7 and replace all our other windows
servers and move everything to the new SAN. (And that included the
migration consultant's $).
We had IBM quote the upgrade using iSeries, pSeries and xSeries. When
our IBM rep presented the numbers, he just tossed the p & i quotes
and said nevermind.
--- In DoNotReply@consolut.eu, andy.quaasZa... wrote:
> Bill Gates doesn't like DB2. We should all switch to MSSQL!
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> "Peri Alberto" <vw000644Zf...>
> 06/23/2003 08:44 AM
> Please respond to SAP on System i
>
> To: <DoNotReply@consolut.eu>
> cc:
> Subject: R: RE: AS/400 or another
platform
>
>
> Mr.Don Osinski,
>
> You know the difference between a SQL server2000 engine and a
DB2/400
> engine...I THINK NOT.......the performance index is not the only
reason to
> choice a platform instead another.........I HOPE!!!!
>
> Bye
>
> Alberto Peri
> Euroinvest Group
>
>
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Osinski, Don [mailto:dosinskiZp...]
> Inviato: lunedì 23 giugno 2003 14.21
> A: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
> Oggetto: RE: RE: AS/400 or another platform
>
>
> Berhanu,
>
> What Victor didn't tell you is we have been putting up SAP on SQL
Server
> at our smaller companies Cheaper with better response times. Per
> concurrent user the AS400 can not compete with other platforms. We
are
> running a system that can handle a hundred users with a price that
you
> couldn't get a 270 for. SQL Server has benchmarks of 26,000 SD
users for
> SAP on one database server and that was on a 32 bit box, now that
you can
> use 64 bit why would you want to pay the extra cost to use an
AS400? If
> you want the standard platform I would not use the AS400 as if you
compare
> the numbers there are more than 30,000 SAP installations on SQL
Server and
> just over 1,000 on the AS400. IBM has invested most of its time and
money
> into DB2 UDB and not much into the AS400, so it has lost its edge.
If my
> job depended on recommending a system it would not be an AS400
because how
> could you justify the added expense with no added benefits. You pay
more
> for less.
>
> ThankYou
> Don Osinski
> SAP Basis Administrator
> DOsinskiZp...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BKifle [mailto:kifleZm...]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:44 PM
> To: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
> Subject: RE: RE: AS/400 or another platform
>
> Hi Victor,
>
> Thanks for your respons.
> My Database is 70GB. 150 to 200 users. The concern is more about
future
> upgrade to R3 4.7 and the belief of individuals with unix
background that
> the AS/400 is not the "standard" platform for R3. They want to
position
> the company on a "standard" platform before moving on to R3 4.7
next year
> or so they say.
>
> Berhanu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lin, Victor [mailto:vqiangZp...]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 10:17 AM
> To: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
> Subject: RE: AS/400 or another platform
>
>
> Berhanu,
>
> How large is your database? What is the bottleneck for your current
AS/400
> machine?
>
> If each of your R/3 database is relatively small, and the
bottleneck is
> the CPU processing power, maybe you cannot win the discussion. But
if the
> I/O access is involved or you just need more CPU power, 3-tier
system with
> win2k app server can convince the other people that you should go
with
> AS/400, just like Andy suggested.
>
> The power of multiple Intel processes is good enough to handle
> enterprise-class applications, but the I/O system of Intel-
architecture
> server does not have much advantage over AS/400 to support a huge
> database. Keep in mind that AS/400 is true 64-bit architecture, the
system
> bus is at GHz level (from a pre-IBMer sales engineer), the disk
controller
> is PCI-X (not PCI) with decent amount on-board cache and battery,
and the
> extension towers are connected through copper (not Fiber). Also the
> reliability of AS/400 still top the single-system platforms (It
even has
> its own internal battery). To match the hardware profile of 830,
the other
> hardware vendors have to look at their top-level servers and more
likely
> come back with a big $$$ proposal too. You can also ask IBM for
special
> pricing for 0 interactive i8xx machines if you are still not
confident for
> the cost. IBM is top player on the top-class server market, it has
enough
> manufacturing volume to drive the cost down and compete with other
> Unix/Linux or Windows server manufacturers. As long as the prices
are
> comparable, you have a proven solution, and they have extra work to
do -
> heterogeneous system copy.
>
> I am also curious whether it is possible to put Linux app server in
front
> of the AS/400 DB server? Does any SAPer in the group know about it?
>
> Good luck,
> Victor
> Plastipak Packaging INC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
[mailto:DoNotReply@consolut.eu]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:50 AM
> To: DoNotReply@consolut.eu
> Subject: Digest Number 935
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:43:07 -0500
> From: andy.quaasZa...
> Subject: Re: RE: AS/400 or another platform
>
> 3-tier AS/400 DB with win 2k app server could save you considerable
money,
>
> have a look at that first. When you get to comparing the costs of
a win2k
>
> platform with AS/400 (SAN, disks, etc) they really do come out
almost
> equal. The sales pitches for windoze vs. iSeries always seem to
forget
> things...
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> "BKifle" <kifleZm...>
> 06/19/2003 10:19 AM
> Please respond to SAP on System i
>
> To: <DoNotReply@consolut.eu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: AS/400 or another
platform
>
>
> Hi Sappers,
> We are running 4.5B on an 8 way S30. It is time to upgrade the Box
and R3.
>
>
> In choosing our next platform the majority of the group that is
handling
>
> the selection
> process is in favor of other systems. I am standing for the AS/400
> descendent boxes. Cost seems to be the main criteria. I don't know
how to
> present my case with
> hard facts to convince the group to stay with the AS/400 family.
> If any of you have gone thru this process and was able to win the
case for
>
> the AS/400
> please share the winning points with me.
>
> Thanks
> Berhanu
>
>
>
>
> Have a look to our homepage at: http://www.consolut.net
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